Dan, the difference is that Standard AKA MAS90 is a file server application. The data files come over the network and are processed on the work station and then sent back. For this reason the vast majority of data corruption cases I used to work on when I was a consultant happened on MAS90 installs. Advanced AKA MAS200 is the client server version. In this case all processing is done on the server. I always suggest that if it is more than just you sitting in a closet doing all the work on a stand alone to go with the client server version. Less data corruption and faster, lots  faster processing are the main benefits.  Note that there is NO difference in the data files, just the program files.

If you have 26 users you definately need to go to the client server version. Run it as an Application rather than a service.

Thanks BL.  I understand the difference in versions.  I'm just trying to get a handle on how much of a difference it really is.  If I'm seeing 5-7 second window loads, is that going to be 1-2 in Advanced?  

I know Sage doesn't want to put numbers up on it due to varying server specs and networks, but it would be nice to have some rational data on performance gain when moving up.

Thanks BL.  I understand the difference in versions.  I'm just trying to get a handle on how much of a difference it really is.  If I'm seeing 5-7 second window loads, is that going to be 1-2 in Advanced?  

I know Sage doesn't want to put numbers up on it due to varying server specs and networks, but it would be nice to have some rational data on performance gain when moving up.

OK,  pricing makes more sense now.   However, your next year's maintenance really isn't part of the upgrade,  it's something you would have paid anyway (other than the incremental difference).  Was initially worried that you were getting gouged on the labor,  but I think it's in the ball park now.

Not so sure you will see a huge difference in the window load time (although you might).  Your speed will tend to be more in processing time (updating, printing, etc.).   The other advantage is that you have less network traffic,  so if you have other applications that are also competing for bandwidth you should see an improvement there as well.

Without window load time increases, then it isn't worth the upgrade at all.  Processing is already pretty fast, I don't imagine it could get much faster.

That's really sad to hear.

With 30+ users you have to have a very clean network, strong workstations and carefully configured Antivirus. You should have a completely dedicated server and a diligent IT staff with regular maintenance routines for the file server.

Even with all of that in place there is always the possibility network instability because of a bad cable a chatty NIC or collisions because of inattention to a new NIC or switch setting, etc..

With that much user overhead you may begin to run into circumstances where a network delay or collision will confuse the Windows opportunistic locking feature. Depending on the file that gets locked you could see delays or hanging when updating or saving but the most frequent and catastrophic issue is cascade or domino locking.

Cascade locking is usually due to the session file SY_WORKSTATION being the file that gets locked. If Windows fails to release a lock on SY_WORKSTATION no one else in the system can access it.

A write to SY_WORKSTATION happens when you open the program or change tasks in the program so if it is locked by Windows people who are in the system can typically continue to work until they need to change tasks then their business desktop will lock up. Anyone trying to enter the system will also lock. Until one by one everyone is locked up.

These cascade lockups can be extremely disruptive to a company’s business day. By their very nature they happen when the network is at its highest activity and if they occur at the right time, like during an update they can even cause corruption in the Sage 100 Standard data files.

Again, this type of locking behavior on a Sage 100 Standard system is almost always a result of a network interruption that prevents Windows from releasing an oplock. And the locking and unlocking done by Windows is completely in under the control of the Windows SMB protocols not by Sage 100. There is almost always a network / hardware issue involved. (If you see a delayed write failed error there is no doubt you have a network/hardware or hardware driver issue that is causing oplocks issues)

 A perfect full duplex, dedicated Gb (no auto negotiation) network with a strong file server that has minimal fragmentation and workstations with adequate resources, should be capable of supporting 30+ users but perfection is fickle and can be elusive once it’s lost.

 If a 100 Standard system begins to exhibit this behavior and there has been no recent increase in network load it is most likely a bad node has been added or there has been a failure in an existing node or cabling. Oplocking issues can be eliminated by shutting the feature off at the server or on each of the workstations or both. Instructions for how to do this can be found on the Sage knowledge base and on many articles on the Internet including Microsoft's site.

Though most task will be unaffected, shutting off Oplocks on a 100 Standard system WILL reduce the performance of Crystal Reports and large ALE lookups. But Depending on how frequently the locking occurs, it could be necessary to allow users to function while troubleshooting the computers and network.

Troubleshooting networks and computer hardware issues is not in the realm of Sage 100 customer support. These functions are best handled by your reseller or an IT professional.

Sage 100 Advanced and Premium are built with a *client / server architecture. Since the processing and data access occurs on the server, there are no files being opened across the network, therefore oplocks issues cannot occur. This is not to say that Sage 100 Advanced is completely impervious to network disconnections, no product is, but oplocks issues are impossible, the general network load is reduced exponentially and the system is far more fault tolerant in general.

 *For Sage Advanced the CS ODBC service must be set up and configured for Crystal Reports to process on the server and is a differentiating feature in its own right. Test the performance of a Crystal report on a Sage 100 installation on the server and on a workstation. If it runs noticeably faster on the server it will run noticeably faster on the workstation using the Sage 100 Advanced CS ODBC driver. It may not run on the workstation with exactly the same performance as the server but typical performance improvement is between 3 and 5 times faster.

There is no need to set up an ODBC server for Sage Premium.

Dan,

My intent was not to turn you off on Advanced with my last comment.

As you add more and more users beyond 20, it is more and more likely that you will see slow downs due to increased network traffic.   Obviously results will vary depending on your hardware and network.  In any event, Advanced should hold up better and be more stable as you add more users.

Just as a quick test which is not entirely scientific (two different servers, two different workstations same network and only myself currently the only one logged in) ,  I did a quick test on my network and I got similar times loading between standard and advanced (about 1-3 seconds - I was a little surprised, I thought it was longer than that).  This is significantly less than what you indicate you are getting (5-7 seconds?).  

So I guess I will stick to my statement that the biggest improvement will be in processing especially if you are running reports on large databases.

Just to be sure Tom, you are talking about window load times.  Click SO Entry and it opens in less than 3 seconds?  It's never loaded that fast for us and we've been through 3 different servers and moved from 10/100 to Gb.  The best I can get is the first time a window loads takes about 6 seconds.  Then any time it is used after that will open in 3 seconds.  It's almost as if the OS caches the files for the window the first time and then uses that cache each additional load.

Once the window loads, the data is fast.  I can flip through Sales Orders, Purchase Orders, etc in just a second.  The main issue is that initial window open time.  We also don't have any issues with speed of processing, at least nobody has ever complained about it.

I don't really know what to say now.  Without increased window load times, I see no reason to upgrade to Advanced except for the database consistency and for my 2 VPN users.

I have already implemented several of the items from the post by TheOtherGuy.  I'm aware of OpsLock and have always had it disabled on every server SageMAS has been on.  We run a Gb network and I haven't seen a discernible difference between Forced 1000 and AutoNeg 1000.

Our current server is a Virtual Machine with 4 processing cores assigned to it and 10GB of ram available strictly for that VM.  It sits idling all day and barely squeaks past 4GB of memory usage.  Network IO is next to nothing also.

dlevasseur, I now understand shaving those seconds off of your initial screen load time is your primary reason for considering the upgrade.

I am not sure if Sage Advanced would help but it might. You should speak with your partner, he might be able to set up a sample install.

That said, i know you aren't concerned with report speeds but if you haven't before you might want to try running a GL Detail Report from one of your workstations, then run the same report from your server.  On a Sage 100 Standard install with Oplocks disabled the differnece should be pretty significant.